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BackupBuddy working when "Wordpress address" is different from the "Site address" (General Settings)?


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#1 Guest_Ellie_*

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Posted 03 July 2011 - 12:33 PM

Good day,

Before to buy I would like you to confirm whetherBackupBuddy is able to handle installation when the "Wordpress address" is different from the "Site address" (General Settings)? That is my case in most of the Wordpress installation I am doing or my clients have.

Thanks

Ellie

#2 Gilbert Guerin

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 08:11 AM

Hi Ellie,

For me, as far as I understand it doesn't seem to work, but I don't want to interfere with the answer of the guys who really know (maybe there is something I am not getting...).

G.

#3 Dustin Akers

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 12:00 PM

Hi Ellie,

It can install and I know backing up and restoring will be fine. Changing servers should work but there could be some issues if migrating to a different/new WordPress address. There are some workarounds still though, such as temporarily changing them to match then changing them back.

Thanks,

-Akers
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#4 Guest_Ellie_*

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 03:48 PM

Hi thanks for the answer, I didn't realise it was the 4th of July, which explains why answers were relatively slow ;-).

While reading the forums, I guess I have the same concern than Gilbert (except he seemed to have bought the package, not me for the moment ;-)).

I am already backuping up correctly my different websites, I didn't need Backup Buddy for that as there is nothing fancy to do that. The only thing I am interesting in is simplifyingthe migrationto a new host or a new location from my localhost to the real server (or vice versa - where the names change) - and therefore obviously to adjust accordlingy the serialised data when there is some to be changed.

Quote

There are some workarounds still though, such as temporarily changing them to match then changing them back.

Do you mean serialised data would have also to be done by hand?

If it can not do that, I honestly don't really see the point for me...

Otherwise what are the know issues exactly if there are some (eg. migrating when in the settings WP address is different from the Blog address? - most of the sites, at least not from the one not from the kid from the corner, I know of are usually setup this way)? Will they be corrected soon?

#5 Dustin Akers

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 08:30 AM

Hi Ellie,

BackupBuddy wasn't intended for the site url and the WordPress url to be different. Workarounds for them would have to be set before migrating. If the site url is a subset of the WordPress url then the serialized data will be migrated with the site portion.

Thanks,

-Akers
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#6 Guest_Ellie_*

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 09:07 AM

Ouch, honestly, I am very surprised, that's a big "no go" in that case, as even most of the free migrating plugin solutions available on Wordpress.org do it (not sure exactly with wich techno under the hood - database access or flat file to treat the serialised data).

Sure with maybe potentially less fancy features on some other points (complete backup, storing by ftp or in the cloud, etc...), but all of that is gadget if you consider the most important points when migrating (development to live environnement, live back to dev, or change of host):

  • convert old URL - new URL (for location of both wordpress engine and of the site) - but <span style="color: #3366ff">honestly everybody knows how to replace a string in the backup flat file from wp_db_backup or phpmyadmin - even with only notepad if necessary
    </span>
  • correct serialise data in widgets (basically in wp_options) that could have been impacted
All the rest is maybe appreciated as extra feature but the most important in migrating is that 2 aspects, otherwise what's the point?

So if this was not intended by design, what are exactly the real working workarounds (I don't see them described anywhere) - it is absolutely impossible for my sites or my clients to have the site location corresponding to the wp physical sub-dir?

#7 Guest_Pierre_*

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 02:55 AM

Good day,

I came to this site having heard of BackupBuddy.

Seeing the packages of different plugin, my first intention was to buy the developer package with all plugins.

I understand however that there is no refund policy and it is my duty to check before if the package is going to work for me or not, and which functionalities are really present or not (strange but anyway...).

So I read the different FAQ and entries of the forum, and I am lately quite concerned.

My setup are very similar to the one described in threads initiated by Gilbert and Ellie - what they call difference between 'siteurl' and 'home' url. In short, the directory where Wordpress is installed is different from the URL of the site (sub directory usually). This is indeed absolutely necessary as most of our clients use WP in conjunction with other software like forum, wiki, etc, this for sanity reason and just plain usability. It would not be advised or even practically possible to clutter the main directory with all software mixed all together.

In all my industry contacts, I don't even know one developper having a different setup (which is confirmed by best trends seen on WP articles of leaders such as Smashing Magazine or Sitepoint).

I then understand (please confirm) that Backup Buddy can not work in this (more than usual) environnement.

If the flagship product of the developper package doesn't work, I don't really see the point of buying it.

Can you please state if this is going to be corrected soon (an idea of schedule would be really appreciated), or give at least a practical example of real working workaround (not generalities please)?

Really would like to purchase what seems to be an interesting package, but not if there is this kind of problem (making it potentially useless).

Please confirm.

Pierre

#8 Guest_Pro WP Dev_*

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 06:22 AM

Hi,

We are in the process of streamlining our way to go from backstage to live environnements and have apparently exactly the same concerns than the previous commenters (our WP setup seems to be very similar).

Can you please advice and confirm when it is going to be implemented or working?

For reference, we usually make the change of url (whatever and wherever they are - or in which wp table) directly by replacing the string in the flat SQL backup file (a 8 year old could do that - mine does in few seconds). The only snatch is to correctly handle the serialised data (my 8 year old didn't find a solution to that Posted Image).

A reliable script just able to correct all the serialised data would be more than sufficient, and we would happily pay a few bucks for it - forget all other stuff and fancy features if you can't get the basic URL pb right the way it should be handled.

No offense, but can you just confirm if it is here the right place to get that kind of stuff, or should we still look further?

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#9 Josh

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 10:27 AM

@all

I understand your concerns but backupbuddy does handle serialized data which i think is a big up point for Backupbuddy. So as far as i know backupbuddy is the only plugin that handles serialized data.

As to not adjusting the defined wordpress URL defined in the settings page, it does handle this. There are only special cases where it does not. As long as the WordPress URL is an extension of the site URL it will work just fine. The only case where this does not work correctly is where the wordpress URL is a different domain.(which i dont know anyone who does that). In some cases you may have to go back in a define the wordpress URL but that is 2 second task.

If you have anymore questions please feel free to ask.

Regards

Josh

Edited by Josh, 07 July 2011 - 05:48 AM.

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#10 Gilbert Guerin

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 12:26 PM

Hi Josh,

Thanks for the answer.

So I am not sure what I am doing wrong, because this definitely does not work for me (I am using the latest version of BackupBuddy - 2.2.1).

As the guys from the support told me it should be working, it is then most probably something I am doing or not doing, but I definitely run in trouble. Can somebody explains me what to do 'really' or describe the procedure in plain English to me?

I have the same problem on all the website I tested and I can reproduce the problem anytime with a very simple installation
of a clean Wordpress + Twenty Eleven theme + 1 text widget with a simple
link to the homepage inside. Would it be better if I send this by email
to somebody on your side to test - with the exact screen copy of the
process I am following?

I posted in the member forum what is below but nobody said something back to me for the last couple of days.

Seeing it you are on it, I am reproducing it here (original is here: http://ithemes.com/forum/index.php?/topic/15827-backupbuddy-does-it-take-care-of-situation-where-wordpress-address-url-site-address-url-apparently-not/)

Can you please confirm if I am wrong in the procedure or what it should be?

Thanks

Gilbert



Copy of latest message in the member forum below:



Dustin Akers said:

Quote

Hi Gilbert,

For non-migrations there will not be any problem.  If you are migrating then BackupBuddy will update your site_url settings in WordPress as well as changing all the old links in your database that were equal to the site_url of the old site to the site_url of the new site. If your site_url is 'higher' / a parent of the WordPress site and you use the same directory then you should not have any problems.

For example:

SOURCE Site Url: http://bob.com

SOURCE WordPress Url: http://bob.com/wordpress/

DESTINATION Site Url: http://tom.com

SOURCE WordPress Url: http://tom.com/wordpress/



Hi Dustin, thanks for the answer.

By the way, excuse in advance my English, it is not my natural language. Just to confirm, I am also not trying to flame anybody here, just trying to make it work and just be able to use what I bought

I am definitely in this configuration (site_url is 'higher' / a parent of the WordPress).

When restoring (migrating), where do you place the "importbuddy.php" file? My best guess will be http://tom.com/wordpress/, to have the directory structure recreated in /wordpress as the original site.

Quote

BackupBuddy does not differentiate the two to help avoid conflicts in determining which URL to modify.  99.9% of our users do not configure these addresses differently so this helps prevent errors and eases migration for most users and protects data integrity.

Sorry to say, but from my experience, I would rather believe that during the first writing of this plugin, the coder didn't think at the time of the importance of taking care of the difference between Site URL and WordPress URL (this dissociation doesn't exist from the beginning of WordPress – it appeared when WordPress started to be used from something else than just blogs, or in interaction with other software ). Anyway, it is a very popular installation setup now (and recognised as a best pratice by a lot of authors) in the community of serious developpers or installers (I suppose you have more people in this category than just 0,01% ;-)).

Here is the test I have done again:

1) Let's try by putting importbuddy.php in my new website WP directory: http://localhost/www.newwebsite.com/wp/ (where I want the zip to be decompressed – all wp files to respect the same principal than previously, not in the root directory).

2) Option A – When being asked for the New Blog URL, I put there http://localhost/www.newwebsite.com/wp/

Let's verify in the wp_options table

Let's go manually in http://localhost/www.newwebsite.com/wp/wp-admin (to update the general settings corresponding to home http://localhost/www.newwebsite.com.

Then the result is:

  • <span style="color: #ff0000"><span style="color: #000000">Good: All pictures links work (linked correctly to </span></span><span style="color: #3366ff">http://localhost/www.newwebsite.com/wp/</span><span style="color: #ff0000"><span style="color: #000000"> </span></span>wp-content/themes/mytesttheme/images/<span style="color: #ff0000"><span style="color: #000000">)</span></span>
  • <span style="color: #ff0000"><span style="color: #000000">Bad: All reference coded by hand to previous articles in menus, posts or widgets have not been changed (</span></span>http://localhost/www.newwebsite.com/ <span style="color: #ff0000"><span style="color: #000000">) – we understand why as </span></span>there was no reason that http://localhost/www.oldwebsite.com/wp match (both 'siteurl' and 'home' should be tested and not only 'siteurl')
2) Option B – When being asked for the New Blog URL, I put there http://localhost/www.newwebsite.com/

Let's verify in the wp_options table

Let's change it manually with phpmyadmin:

    Then the result is:

    In both cases A & B, no opportunity to see if the change of serialised data work.

    Quote

    In your example BackupBuddy would work properly for you.

    So I am sorry to say, for the moment it doesn't work in the setup described. Can you please confirm?

    Quote

    99.9% of our users do not configure these addresses differently so this helps prevent errors and eases migration for most users and protects data integrity.

    I don't see why it is specifically protecting data integrity not to do the right thing ;-)  It should not be however too difficult to make the change. Let's say:

    1) clearly treat the difference of use between 'siteurl' and 'home', by proposing to key the 2 (by default they could be proposed identical for those who don't know what it is about).

    2) if detected identical, the process could stay identical under the hood (but while the coder is at it, it might just be better to treat the general case)

    3) if different, as 'home' is supposed to be shorter than 'siteurl' (www.mynewsite.com versus www.mynewsite.com/wp) replace first occurence of 'siteurl' (the longest one), then the shorter one ('home')

    4) fix accordingly 'home' option in wp_options which is incorrect currently (don't know if it is a current side effect or not)

    5) fix serialised data most probably by the same process than currently

    6) Fix potentially the .htaccess in root directory (but if it is the only problem remaining, we could live with it )

    Nothing should otherwise be impacted as far as I understand it.

    Can we have an urgent fix or is there somewhere something that I am doing wrong in my understanding of the process?

    I can give you very basic zip file to test if necessary (clean test install + 1 post + 1 widget with a link coded as a text inside).

    Thanks to confirm.

    #11 Josh

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    Posted 07 July 2011 - 02:04 PM

    Hi Gilbert,

    Would you mind sendin me a link to one of your backups? Just place a backup in the root of your site and just link me to it. You can PM me with the link or you can send it to my email josh@ithemes.com and I will take a look at it for you.

    So please let us know

    Regards

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    #12 Gilbert Guerin

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    Posted 10 July 2011 - 04:38 AM

    Hi Josh,

    took me longer than expected but I just emailed you a backup file, and a very complete and detailed pdf explaining how was setup the test (a very simple test) from scratch (32 pages).

    A quick overview of the results are still the same (see below).

    Please confirm after testing on your side.

    I will be for almost a week without a Internet connection (or very seldomly), but do not hesitate to contact me if necessary for more info. Hopefully this will be resolved soon.

    Thanks

    Gilbert

    ------------

    This is a test BackupBuddy 2.2.1 with a fresh install of Wordpress 3.2 + default theme Twenty Eleven.
    Wordpress will be installed on a local machine with the approach described here: http://codex.wordpress.org/Giving_WordPress_Its_Own_Directory
    • Original URL: http://localhost/www.testorg.com
    • Destination URL: http://localhost/www.testmigrate.com
    Wordpress is intalled in its own directory
    • ‘siteurl’=http://localhost/www.testorg.com/wp
    • ‘home’=http://localhost/www.testorg.com
    In brief conclusion of the test after migration is:
    • A Home URL: where should be the site: 'http://localhost/www.testmigrate.com' <span style="color: #ff0000">Failed</span>
    • A SiteUrl URL where should be wordpress files: 'http://localhost/www.testmigrate.com/wp' <span style="color: #ff0000">Failed</span>
    • A link to a picture that should now be located in 'http://localhost/www.testmigrate.com/wp' <span style="color: #ff0000">Failed</span>
    • Links to page 'http://localhost/www.testorg.com/name_of_my_page' (Passed – after changing manually the ‘siteurl’ and ‘home’ with phpMyAdmin)
    • A widget with serialized data that will have to be changed when migrating to a new site address (<span style="color: #ff0000">Failed: links did not changed, serialized data didn’t to change – was not able to test serialized data</span>)

    #13 Guest_Pro WP Dev_*

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    Posted 11 July 2011 - 02:32 AM

    Hi,

    so it seems this problem is still not resolved.

    Either Gilbert doesn't know how to use the plugin, but his few posts do not sound delirious to us, as he keeps pointing the same defaults or errors. And who would write a very detailed test if he was not sure he did everything according to the specs?

    Or there is really a problem lying somewhere, and it is even more concerning because as we are reading this, it seems in that case that:

    • no regression test are performed when there is a new version
    • it takes a very long time for support or devs to acknowledge there is really a problem or even to try to reproduce it
    So, is there really a problem with the plugin actually or not? Still not sure if we should buy this...

    Please confirm.

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    #14 Ronald

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    Posted 11 July 2011 - 06:58 AM

    Hi,

    Gilbert has sent his information yesterday, which was on the weekend. I expect Josh to be able to have a look at it today.

    And although we appreciate your concerns and continuing involvement, please don't jump to conclusions about our testing methods, or the capabilities of our support and dev staff.

    Indeed, Gilbert keeps pointing at the same issue. We have heard that, and we can see that in several threads now. Thank you. Now let us look into this, see if this is an issue, if it is, how we will resolve it, and what the roadmap will be to get there.

    We will give you an update as soon as we have something to update.

    thanks for understanding, your patience and consideration,
    Ronald

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    #15 Josh

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    Posted 11 July 2011 - 11:03 PM

    Hi,

    We have verified that this is indeed a bug and we have added it to our bug tracking system, We will have a proper fix tested and pushed out as soon as possible. Thanks for the feedback Gilbert, I really appreciate it. It is just not handling wordpress being in its own directory very well.

    I will post back here when the fix is pushed

    Thanks for your patience

    Regards

    Josh
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    #16 Gilbert Guerin

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    Posted 12 July 2011 - 01:58 AM

    Hi Josh,

    Thanks for the confirmation. At least I know I not crazy Posted Image.

    If the 4-5 points outlined in the test file sent could be solved, I guess all will be good.

    Really would love to have the opportunity to include this in my process.

    There is also an error message quite abrupt on the Dashboard Wordpress list of plugin page - when BackupBuddy try to check or call home when there is no Internet connection (as tested in my local machine virtual sandbox) even if no serial number is entered.

    #17 Guest_Ellie_*

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    Posted 12 July 2011 - 02:13 AM

    Hi Gilbert,

    Would you mind PM me a private email address where to contact you?

    Ellie

    #18 Gilbert Guerin

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    Posted 13 July 2011 - 09:35 AM

    Hi Ellie

    Can't PM you as you are not apparently a member.

    A private email address First Name . Name @gmail.com.

    Thanks

    #19 Gilbert Guerin

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    Posted 13 July 2011 - 09:40 AM

    Hi Josh

        

        As far as I understand the process, even after the correction of the
        current bugs, there is already something that I foresee as still
        needed in most of my setup to have a successfull migration.

        As explained before, in most of the cases where we have to handle
        Wordpress installation, WP is not the only software used. There is
        frequently a Wiki, a Forum, or another installation of Wordpress
        itself for example to have the site in another language.

        

        For example, from an user point of view, it is possible to access
        the different subsites or subdomains by:

        
    • <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.testorg.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.testorg.com</a>
    • <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.fr.testorg.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.fr.testorg.com</a>
    • <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.wiki.testorg.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.wiki.testorg.com</a> or
              wiki.testorg.com
    • <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.forum.testorg.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.forum.testorg.com</a>
              or forum.testorg.com

    So obviously, there are still links in the main Worpress database
        (either in post, page, menu, widget,...) that may link to these
        elements.

        They could be changed manually in the database with a SQL update,
        but if they are located in widgets (or generally in the wp_options
        table), there is still a need to change serialised data.

        

        Even if it may seem outside of the scope of this plugin, I suppose
        it should be very easy to be handled in the process.

    They are currently with BackupBuddy 7 steps in the migrating process (7 pages).

        Would it be possible to insert 1 step at the 7th position (move the
        current 7th step to 8).

        For example, it could be something like:

        

        Step 6:

        Finishing migration (same as it is currently)

        

        Step 7:

        Title: Anything else you would like us to replace?
    A field to enter an Original String: 'wiki.testorg.com'

        A field to enter a Destination String: 'wiki.testmigrate.com'

        [ Yes Please Replace ] [ No, nothing else ]

        

        If Yes,

    • replace the String, fix all serialised data that may be
              incorrect
    • loop and ask for a new possible replacement

    If No, go to step 8

        

        Step 8:

        Cleaning up temporary files (same as it is currently)

        It should be very easy as all the internal piece should be already
        present in the software (connection to the database, string
        replacement in all the different tables, correction of serialised
        data)

        

        If necessary, this extra step could be setup as an advanced option
        in the Step 1 of import, if you want to preserve 'non advanced
        users'.

        

        I think this extra step should cover a more complete scope (at least
        for the use that we personnaly need for this software).

        Can you we have this function added as the team on your side is busy fixing the previous bugs?

        
    I just sent you by email a new version of the backup of a test database
        and the new pdf corresponding (in blue text inside what has been
        changed from previous version)

    Gilbert Guerin

    #20 Guest_Pierre_*

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    Posted 16 July 2011 - 11:05 AM

    Hi,

    Any progress on this?

    Is it working now?

    Cheers

    Pierre